tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post5275559876941668646..comments2024-03-15T05:40:28.017-07:00Comments on teresamerica: These Males Take Sensitivity To A Whole New LevelTeresahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16040553825059591114noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-33736589742500347462010-06-04T18:27:58.915-07:002010-06-04T18:27:58.915-07:00Paul,
You are more than welcome to continue th...Paul,<br /> You are more than welcome to continue the conversation. The points you are making on political theories are very interesting and enlightening.Teresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040553825059591114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-39137886840220085832010-06-04T18:11:18.322-07:002010-06-04T18:11:18.322-07:00A couple of other points: to the extent that the N...A couple of other points: to the extent that the Nation's Founders were inspired by Enlightenment thinking, so what? The burden of proof is on the critic to explain which of the exported ideas is dangerous. For example, you mention specifically Hobbes, Locke, and Smith. Well, Hobbes, Locke and Smith are not exactly like-minded, and in fact in some areas are diametrically opposed. I know that we all like to lump things together in neat little groups, but just developing some kind of formula wherein you get to place all thinkers of a certain era into one giant camp called the Enlightenment without exploring the nuances and differences of each is simply wrongheaded. There's a world of a difference between Voltaire and Adam Smith (the latter of whom Edmund Burke admired). Now there might be areas of similarity when it comes to things like human reason and the importance of the individual, but these are substantially different thinkers.<br /><br />In the particular case of the Framers, while I certainly agree that they were influenced by all different stripes of thinkers, they also developed what I believe is a very unique brand of political thought. Post-enlightenment, perhaps? <br /><br />Finally, I happen to be of the belief that philosophically we're divided into camps: the Burkean and the Rousseauian. Both are outside and inside the Enlightenment, the former more out than in. I can go into more detail into this, but I think that will suffice.<br /><br />And thank you Teresa for putting up with those of who have crashed your living room, so to speak.Paul Zummohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01574775522802920843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-62750752910554315982010-06-04T15:28:11.404-07:002010-06-04T15:28:11.404-07:00No, that's not exactly what I said. I believe...No, that's not exactly what I said. I believe that the Enlightenment is overhyped as a source of influence.Paul Zummohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01574775522802920843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-50647391809532361702010-06-04T15:17:16.893-07:002010-06-04T15:17:16.893-07:00Paul,
I appreciate that Enlightenment-era America...Paul,<br /><br />I appreciate that Enlightenment-era American political philosophy is your speciality, but I will just ask you one question - do you really believe that this thought arose in a vacuum, with no basis in English/ Scottish liberalism? I do not.Morning's Minionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11226079972555513328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-20115035177383069372010-06-04T11:21:12.153-07:002010-06-04T11:21:12.153-07:00miafrate,
I want my $5.00 ! Pay up! I accept P...miafrate,<br /><br />I want my $5.00 ! Pay up! I accept Paypal.Kevin T. Ricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09898239106071716402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-31783164942948749662010-06-03T21:07:37.718-07:002010-06-03T21:07:37.718-07:00Paul,
Thank you for your insight into politic...Paul, <br /> Thank you for your insight into political theories and correcting Morning's Minion's misconceptions of political theories also.<br /><br />Have a great night!Teresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040553825059591114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-8973707530857946122010-06-03T15:32:51.903-07:002010-06-03T15:32:51.903-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Teresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040553825059591114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-46890299882577700872010-06-03T15:04:00.344-07:002010-06-03T15:04:00.344-07:00Tony,
As your last comment shows, you have absolu...Tony,<br /><br />As your last comment shows, you have absolutely no idea what kind of thinking I approve of. You mention Hobbes, Locke, and Smith (I guess those were the three British enlightenment folks covered in your philosophy 101 class), and yet I disdain 2 of the 3, and the third is someone who I have given very little thought to.<br /><br />I appreciate the fact that you are very educated in <i>economics</i>, but when it comes to political theory, eh not so much. You just throw out a bunch of names and terms without giving any thought as to whether or not they fit together, or explaining how these figures influenced later thought. <br /><br />If American conservatism is largely a remnant of the ideology of the American founders, then it is difficult to square your assessment (Calvinism-Enlightenment) with these men. I don't think anyone would seriously slap the Calvinist label upon Washington, Adams, Madison and Hamilton (you can google these names if you are not sure who I am referring to). As for the Enlightenment influence, this is I believe highly overrated. The Framers didn't need Locke and Hobbes to justify the American Revolution, and though many of the writers of this era liked to quote from Locke, there really is no evidence that they were meaningfully influenced by him. On that score I think many would argue with me, but the supposition that America is a Lockean nation is simply wrong.<br /><br />Jefferson on the other hand . . .Paul Zummohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01574775522802920843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-51025475746591261702010-06-03T14:22:18.403-07:002010-06-03T14:22:18.403-07:00Very good, Paul, I actually graduatued from Burke&...Very good, Paul, I actually graduatued from Burke's alma mater, but let's set that aside. You have shown time and time again that seem to think problems with Enlightenment thinking begin and end on the continen; whereas in fact, Hobbes, Locke, and Smith are a major part of the problem. You embrace this strand of liberalism and call it conservatism. Good luck with that.Morning's Minionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11226079972555513328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-39934839840178705592010-06-03T13:58:56.909-07:002010-06-03T13:58:56.909-07:00Morning's Minion,
While the Church c...Morning's Minion,<br /> While the Church condemns laissez faire economics in its purest form, the Church also condemns the modern, modern liberalism, or the Marxist ideology which you follow, and the Church states that it is the "mother of all heresies."<br /><br />Capitalism in the United States is different than pure laissez fair economics. For a number of years there has been at least some government intervention in the United States.<br /><br /><br />"Here is the classic error of your liberalism: (i) you make individual autonomy supreme;(ii) you deny that the polity (the state, the prince, the government) has any duties toward God under the moral order, believing only that the state is a human creation. In contrast, Catholic teaching has always claimed that governments have duties toward God."<br /><br />I believe that there needs to be a balance between government and the individual. It seems that you believe that the government should be more expansive and take a more interventionist role in our lives. It seems like you believe that the State knows better than the individual. It seems like you want BIG government to smother the individual and their choices. It seems like you want a cradle to grave nanny state. <br /><br />I want more of a balance between the state (government intervntion) and indivdual rights than you do.<br /><br /> "But your liberalism precludes you from seeing any role for "big government" in the economic sphere."<br /><br />Here is where you falsely accuse me of not wanting <b>any</b> role for government in helping people economically. If you look back in the comments, I even stated that some people need help, should be helped by our government, but some people who don't really need government help and take advantage of our broken system with regards to social safety nets. There is a difference between wanting a little bit of government in the individuals' life (ME) for safety purposes and limited economic help to the poor and wanting the government to be intrusive and making more decisions for the individual (YOU). <br /><br /><br />As far as the military goes, it depends on what the circumstances call for. The military has both contracted and expanded over the years according to the needs of our national security or national defense.Teresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040553825059591114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-16084464542754408872010-06-03T13:22:31.703-07:002010-06-03T13:22:31.703-07:00Tony A, aka Morning's Minion, once took a phil...Tony A, aka Morning's Minion, once took a philosophy class in college where I guess he read an essay by Burke, and now he's qualified to lecture others as to the true definition of conservatism and liberalism. His "treatise" above might get a nice B+ on a 2 page college exam, but as a good explanation as to the roots of conservatism, well, let's just say those of us who actually know something might find it a bit laughable.Paul Zummohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01574775522802920843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-17631805462370247842010-06-03T13:05:17.443-07:002010-06-03T13:05:17.443-07:00You still don't get it. To be a "conserva...You still don't get it. To be a "conservative" and a "classical liberal" at the same time is an exercise in schizophrenia that would tear any mind apart (that proably explains the frantic, emotional, and anti-intellectualism of the American right!).<br /><br />You shoulld read what the Church said about liberalism in the 19th century in particular - not pretty! In fact, liberalism (which is what you people think is conservative!) is an old enemy of the Church.<br /><br />Here is the classic error of your liberalism: (i) you make individual autonomy supreme;(ii) you deny that the polity (the state, the prince, the government) has any duties toward God under the moral order, believing only that the state is a human creation. In contrast, Catholic teaching has always claimed that governments have duties toward God. <br /><br />Of course, you are inconsistent. You would no doubt embrace "big government" to protect the unborn and the institution of marriage, to regulate pornography and (with far less justification) to support an overly-large military. But your liberalism precludes you from seeing any role for "big government" in the economic sphere. And don't run around with strawmen about socialism - we all know that collective ownership of the means of production is not the issue. But the Church does say that your unabashed liberalism is just as bad as socialism, calling them both the "twin rocks of shiprwreck".<br /><br />In short, what Americans call "conservative" is actually undistilled Enlightenment-era liberalism, with all its modernist and social contract baggage. It gels nicely with the evengelical culture which comes directly from Calvinism, which in turn comes from the nominalist revolution - the attempt to overthrow the Catholic intellectual order upon which Catholic social teaching is still based. Your position is not Catholic, and indeed, borders on the heretical.Morning's Minionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11226079972555513328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-75639500169426334942010-06-03T12:19:12.990-07:002010-06-03T12:19:12.990-07:00"Nice. This is a gathering place for racists ..."Nice. This is a gathering place for racists too, I see!"<br /><br />Anarchist Pro-Big Govrnment/ Socialist troublemaker! <br /><br />Yes, I have viewed your blog.Teresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040553825059591114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-68886740855584124692010-06-03T12:07:11.230-07:002010-06-03T12:07:11.230-07:00Miafrate,
I feel sorry for you. You think f...Miafrate,<br /> I feel sorry for you. You think following the law is racist. You think allowing immigrants to come here, and them refusing to learn english, and assimilate into our society is a good thing?Teresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040553825059591114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-57245223205453757912010-06-03T11:26:28.924-07:002010-06-03T11:26:28.924-07:00Sorry you lose pu**y.Sorry you lose pu**y.Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10430262996916238225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-1183436678648251622010-06-03T11:22:49.421-07:002010-06-03T11:22:49.421-07:00Nice. This is a gathering place for racists too, I...Nice. This is a gathering place for racists too, I see!<br /><br />Keep up that Christian witness, ya'll!<br /><br />I'll let "Chicago Ray" or Kevin have the last word if they want it. ($5 say that word will be "asshole" or "fart.")miafratehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05095886227017413491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-58353992795837203712010-06-03T11:21:57.147-07:002010-06-03T11:21:57.147-07:00Miafrate,
"Amusing - You accuse VN of not kno...Miafrate,<br /><i>"Amusing - You accuse VN of not knowing the definition of fascism and communism, and yet I'm afraid that when it comes to "liberalism" Teresa and TAC folks use a FOX News and bowling alley definition of the term.<br /><br />You accuse THEM of "liberalism" not realizing that TAC and Teresa's blog are drowning in liberalism, faith in modernity, faith in the nation-state, faith in Euro-American culture, and the like. <br /><br />Who is the one who is confused?"</i><br /><br />You make accusations without anything to back up your claims. I guess google is in the tank for Fox News and uses a "bowling alley" definition because wikipedia agrees with my definition of modern American liberalism. Morning's Minion-- That must be a big bubble that I'm in.<br /><br /> "Liberalism concentrated on expanding the powers of the government to regulate the economy and social conditions, and were most successful at the state level.<br /><br />After 1933 modern liberals used the New Deal to foster a vast increase in the power of the federal government, especially to regulate business, end the era of economic growth, shift power to farmers, laborers and consumers, and strengthen the position of organized labor.<br /><br />Modern American liberalism is a form of social liberalism developed from progressive ideals such as Theodore Roosevelt's New Nationalism, Woodrow Wilson's New Freedom, Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal, and Lyndon Johnson's Great Society. It combines social liberalism and social progressivism with support for a welfare state and a mixed economy. American liberal causes include voting rights for African Americans, abortion rights for women, and government entitlements such as education and health care. Keynesian economic theory plays an influential role in the economic philosophy of American liberals."<br /><br /><br />"Classical liberalism is a philosophy of individualism and self-responsibility."<br /><br />I believe in individualism and personal resonsibility. But, when people need <b>temporary</b> help I believe it is okay and good for the government to help those that need help. But, the key word here is temporary. The social safety nets were not meant to be programs for people to be reliant on for permanently -- just temporary help.Teresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040553825059591114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-18999818812935242912010-06-03T11:15:26.198-07:002010-06-03T11:15:26.198-07:00Kevin hanging in there..good man....
See T, that&...Kevin hanging in there..good man....<br /><br />See T, that's why I ignore these people, it's not worth the headaches. What will it solve? All they'll do is go back to their blog and attack some more.<br /><br />They even have to get the last word on your own blog. It's like trying to teach an illegal alien geometry much less freaking English, it's damn near impossible, so why (*^%%#^&#$*(* bother. <br /><br />When obama bankrupts them and they lose their jobs while Obama's out playing golf and jerking off(as if his game is even worth working on) they will awaken and say <em> "GOD forgive me for I knew not what I was doing, please hear my foxhole prayer... I've put down the pipe and bottle for good this time, so please give me one more chance since I blew the last 2.."</em>Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10430262996916238225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-20397364680814450842010-06-03T10:51:00.301-07:002010-06-03T10:51:00.301-07:00Miafarte, don't expect people not to get perso...Miafarte, don't expect people not to get personal if you get personal first. You are good at dishing out unsolicited amateur psychological counseling, but no one paticularly cares to hear your two-bit armchair speculations in that vein. When you act like an insufferable asshole, you get called an asshole. Tough!<br /><br />Call me baldy outright if you like. I got a good laugh when I was informed of your what-if-I-were-to-stoop pretense. I would respect a sincere insult in return for a sincere insult far more than this mamby-pamby front, acting like you're above it all while you engage in name-calling as well. Your back is bowed from your own stoopage as well. Your hypocrisy is notable.<br /><br />Here is a clue: make a substantive argument or find somewhere else to display your character flaws. Tellin someone to go "read the Church Fathers" is not at all helpful. That's a lot out there to read, and those of us who have studied the Fathers and still have a ways to go before having read all of them and actually have to spend time earning a living would appeciate a specific reference. Otherwise I have to assume that you are talking out of... well, aforementioned anatomical reference.Kevin T. Ricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09898239106071716402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-61832051973200415822010-06-03T09:58:08.992-07:002010-06-03T09:58:08.992-07:00What does helping the poor look like in your eyes ...<i>What does helping the poor look like in your eyes then? How, specifically, do wealthier people do it?</i><br /><br />And, if I may get personal, how do YOU, Teresa, help poor people in concrete ways?miafratehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05095886227017413491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-27327063440860735882010-06-03T09:56:10.209-07:002010-06-03T09:56:10.209-07:00Do you believe in thievery by the poor and spreadi...<i>Do you believe in thievery by the poor and spreading the wealth?</i><br /><br />Depends what one means by wealth redistribution. Generally the idea is the remedy a <i>previous</i> theft. Read the Church Fathers for some pre-Vatican II grounding on this. <br /><br /><i>How many people on welfare have started a job? A job that provides additional people with jobs? </i><br /><br />I don't know what this means.<br /><br /><i>You just believe in equal misery and beng equally poor. </i><br /><br />I believe that the poor are blessed, as Jesus said. And that we are to be in solidarity with the poor. And that this means being in <i>concrete</i> solidarity with the poor by living simply and by putting the poor first when we establish policies in society. <br /><br /><i>I believe in helping out people without forcing them to be dependent on the government and dependent on pro- BIG government politicians getting elected. Gee.. That sounds like slavery. I guess your for slavery if your for keeping people chained to governemnt checks and chained to Democratic politicians.</i><br /><br />What does helping the poor look like in your eyes then? How, specifically, do wealthier people do it? <br /><br />I am not for "keeping people chained to governemnt (sic) checks and chained to Democratic politicians." I am not, nor are very many of VN's contributors, Democrats. <br /><br />You need to break out of your binary way of thinking about politics.miafratehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05095886227017413491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-76117184287095264062010-06-03T09:55:21.580-07:002010-06-03T09:55:21.580-07:00Michael I's retirement must have been a rumor....Michael I's retirement must have been a rumor.<br /><br />Your still spouting your nonsense to whomever will listen.Tito Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12218771096085701665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-31175742571418368212010-06-03T09:50:08.412-07:002010-06-03T09:50:08.412-07:00Teresa,
I actually haven't been blogging at V...Teresa,<br /><br />I actually haven't been blogging at VN for a while now, so I have no idea about your interactions with them. But if they have been anything like our interactions here, or if you display an that blog the kind of tone that you did in the post above, I can't say I blame them for moderating your comments. You're a terribly disagreeable person who is prone to lying and who obviously doesn't have a very good grasp on what it means to be Catholic. That's okay. We're all in different places. And our interactions with one another should contribute to learning. But your behavior is clearly a barrier to any sort of real interaction.<br /><br />Believe me, I know about "righteous anger." I believe in it, for sure. But I also believe we deceive ourselves sometimes. You seem to be deceived through and through, and in so many ways.miafratehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05095886227017413491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-61561835036494611892010-06-03T09:45:54.901-07:002010-06-03T09:45:54.901-07:00Niafrate,
"fend for yerself, I got mine.&quo...Niafrate,<br /><br />"fend for yerself, I got mine."<br /><br />When did I say that? <br /><br />Never.<br /><br />Oh, please do point that one out to me. <br /><br />Do you believe in thievery by the poor and spreading the wealth?<br /><br />How many people on welfare have started a job? A job that provides additional people with jobs? <br /><br />You just believe in equal misery and beng equally poor. <br /><br />I believe in helping out people without forcing them to be dependent on the government and dependent on pro- BIG government politicians getting elected. Gee.. That sounds like slavery. I guess your for slavery if your for keeping people chained to governemnt checks and chained to Democratic politicians.Teresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040553825059591114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1075932024272546688.post-68127562672635233332010-06-03T09:36:33.745-07:002010-06-03T09:36:33.745-07:00Miafrate,
I could only be shit on for so long...Miafrate, <br /> I could only be shit on for so long by the moderators at Vox Nova before I decided to call out you guys. <br />Jesus displayed anger at both the Temple ( concern for God’s holiness and worship and to root out sinners) and at the synagogue of Capernaum. <br /><br />So, there is justifable anger. Its called righteus anger. If I displayed anger, then it was righteous anger. <br /><br />I will continue to be a witness for God and all that is good in the world. I will continue fighting against evil and speaking up against evil when I see or hear about evil happening in the world. I will continue standing up for the Catholic faith, the Church, the Church's teachings and ecclesial documents since its inception and not just defend everything Catholic (and some of what you perceive to be catholic really isn't Catholic)since Vatican II like the moderators at Vox Nova do.Teresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040553825059591114noreply@blogger.com